Let us begin.
First off, thanks for the quick reads and thoughtful advice. As this could get unmanageable, I suggest we tackle things point by point.
I am going to make a general reply, then I am going to discuss one particular issue. Hopefully, we can put that to bed, and then move on.
It's very combat-based: I think that is true in it's present form. Abilities are very combat-based, and it is after all right now, just a mechanics skeleton. Agreeing on a mechanics skeleton is necessary or else a lot of back-tracking would need to be done.-I think types of spells could go a long way to set the flavor. I don't imagine spells to do as much damage as in 1st Ed. I am also open to new proficiency ideas. However, I am somewhat opposed to dice rolls for puzzle-solving, persuasion, etc. In fact, part of the reason the system is nominally more deadly is to encourage gameplay. I want combat to be a potentially serious ordeal, and not a bunch of heroes throwing insane damage around with little effect. Still, it's not as deadly as you might think. -Armor comes into play, and I think it's a lot of fun. Try out some tests. Also, Dave, the fact that a bunch of little guys could very well overwhelm a higher level guy is very intentional.
Currently, I am considering to deem a small fraction of skill points 'proficiency skill points' each level that may only be used for proficiencies. Straight-up skill points may be used for either, but a handful of proficiency skill points might encourage character development. -Something like 4 per level. This would also put a drag on power gamers.
Spell Circles: Rob, right now one could not buy a new circle at each new level. -It's too expensive (6th circle hermetic costs 22). Also, if I add 'proficiency skill points' it's just going to get harder. As far as why I chose 6 and 8, it's because I thought 7 and 9 were too vague. Many 7th level mage spells might as well have been 6th or 8th. -I don't think the progression in circles was always meaningful. By decreasing the number of steps, one can get a better feel for differences in spell circle power.
Other magics: I think it could be interesting, and I've thought about it a lot. I think the two types are distinct, and they've been proven. As for hermetic, I haven't seen good school specialization improve the game yet. -Not to say it can't. I think domains have worked well for priests, and I think they make sense. Still, I am very interested in your 4 magic types, Rob. I want to think on it, and discuss soon.
4 Attributes: The IQ/Wis thing always bothered me. Aside from giving priests an attribute, I though wisdom offered little. I don't think an attribute giving priests a bonus is necessary. -Their stuff is cheaper and they can wear armor. (I might chill out the wizard intellect bonuses a little, however.) I can imagine a priest of pestilence and disease that might not need a high Charisma. As for charisma, my mind is stil open. Basically, I need to be convinced that cha-based skills add to good gameplay. Like IQ checks, the Cha check has always bothered me. I am not against quantifying a character's likeability, I just want to make it matter if we do, and have it add to the game in a meaningful way. I think many Cha skills (i.e. haggling, persuasion) overlap too much.
As for randomness, yes, I like the excitement of creation rolls. However, rolling 5d4 is very different that 3d6. -It's a lot more forgiving. Also, beginning skill points are very rarely outside 45-55. If we add another attribute like Charisma, due to statistics, this will become an even lesser issue. I think setting attributes must be very regulated to prevent breakage. However, the result of regulation is too often a bunch of clones. I am thinking about spending skills to raise attributes, -something like 6 x level (...but that just helps the rich). Maybe a cost related to the score... Yeah I like that: 10 to go 9 to 10 etc... As for Endurance, Rob, I like how it works for proficiencies and how it adds to willpower and fortitude. -I think it's a keeper.
Attributes and proficiencies, under/over: Points well taken, Dave. Still, I think if we could do 1st Ed THACO and AC math, kids can do this one. As for combat complexity, the Dodge derivation and lack of THACO really speeds things up. Armor works very fast.
These ideas I am immediately adopting: 1) 'Levels' instead of 'echelons' (Good points). 2) Unarmed combat levels are simply going to increase unarmed damage (They will be cheaper accordingly), and other weapon skills will be applicable to unarmed attacks (except parry). 3) No auto-literacy (good points). 4) Stat scores will give the mighty '1' it's own place.
Anyway, thanks again for all the reading and suggestions.
To begin:
To keep things efficient, let's talk attributes. Aside from giving 1 its place, I haven't been convinced to make any major changes. Let's talk Charisma. Is it necessary, and why?
Also, roll a bunch of characters. Is randomization that bad? If so, how do we not roll and make character's diverse? (Some characters should have 11's and 12's, and some should have 8's and 16's.)
And, what do you think about my method for buying higher attributes after creation: 10 for 10, 15 for 15, etc...
Let us begin...
I am going to make a general reply, then I am going to discuss one particular issue. Hopefully, we can put that to bed, and then move on.
It's very combat-based: I think that is true in it's present form. Abilities are very combat-based, and it is after all right now, just a mechanics skeleton. Agreeing on a mechanics skeleton is necessary or else a lot of back-tracking would need to be done.-I think types of spells could go a long way to set the flavor. I don't imagine spells to do as much damage as in 1st Ed. I am also open to new proficiency ideas. However, I am somewhat opposed to dice rolls for puzzle-solving, persuasion, etc. In fact, part of the reason the system is nominally more deadly is to encourage gameplay. I want combat to be a potentially serious ordeal, and not a bunch of heroes throwing insane damage around with little effect. Still, it's not as deadly as you might think. -Armor comes into play, and I think it's a lot of fun. Try out some tests. Also, Dave, the fact that a bunch of little guys could very well overwhelm a higher level guy is very intentional.
Currently, I am considering to deem a small fraction of skill points 'proficiency skill points' each level that may only be used for proficiencies. Straight-up skill points may be used for either, but a handful of proficiency skill points might encourage character development. -Something like 4 per level. This would also put a drag on power gamers.
Spell Circles: Rob, right now one could not buy a new circle at each new level. -It's too expensive (6th circle hermetic costs 22). Also, if I add 'proficiency skill points' it's just going to get harder. As far as why I chose 6 and 8, it's because I thought 7 and 9 were too vague. Many 7th level mage spells might as well have been 6th or 8th. -I don't think the progression in circles was always meaningful. By decreasing the number of steps, one can get a better feel for differences in spell circle power.
Other magics: I think it could be interesting, and I've thought about it a lot. I think the two types are distinct, and they've been proven. As for hermetic, I haven't seen good school specialization improve the game yet. -Not to say it can't. I think domains have worked well for priests, and I think they make sense. Still, I am very interested in your 4 magic types, Rob. I want to think on it, and discuss soon.
4 Attributes: The IQ/Wis thing always bothered me. Aside from giving priests an attribute, I though wisdom offered little. I don't think an attribute giving priests a bonus is necessary. -Their stuff is cheaper and they can wear armor. (I might chill out the wizard intellect bonuses a little, however.) I can imagine a priest of pestilence and disease that might not need a high Charisma. As for charisma, my mind is stil open. Basically, I need to be convinced that cha-based skills add to good gameplay. Like IQ checks, the Cha check has always bothered me. I am not against quantifying a character's likeability, I just want to make it matter if we do, and have it add to the game in a meaningful way. I think many Cha skills (i.e. haggling, persuasion) overlap too much.
As for randomness, yes, I like the excitement of creation rolls. However, rolling 5d4 is very different that 3d6. -It's a lot more forgiving. Also, beginning skill points are very rarely outside 45-55. If we add another attribute like Charisma, due to statistics, this will become an even lesser issue. I think setting attributes must be very regulated to prevent breakage. However, the result of regulation is too often a bunch of clones. I am thinking about spending skills to raise attributes, -something like 6 x level (...but that just helps the rich). Maybe a cost related to the score... Yeah I like that: 10 to go 9 to 10 etc... As for Endurance, Rob, I like how it works for proficiencies and how it adds to willpower and fortitude. -I think it's a keeper.
Attributes and proficiencies, under/over: Points well taken, Dave. Still, I think if we could do 1st Ed THACO and AC math, kids can do this one. As for combat complexity, the Dodge derivation and lack of THACO really speeds things up. Armor works very fast.
These ideas I am immediately adopting: 1) 'Levels' instead of 'echelons' (Good points). 2) Unarmed combat levels are simply going to increase unarmed damage (They will be cheaper accordingly), and other weapon skills will be applicable to unarmed attacks (except parry). 3) No auto-literacy (good points). 4) Stat scores will give the mighty '1' it's own place.
Anyway, thanks again for all the reading and suggestions.
To begin:
To keep things efficient, let's talk attributes. Aside from giving 1 its place, I haven't been convinced to make any major changes. Let's talk Charisma. Is it necessary, and why?
Also, roll a bunch of characters. Is randomization that bad? If so, how do we not roll and make character's diverse? (Some characters should have 11's and 12's, and some should have 8's and 16's.)
And, what do you think about my method for buying higher attributes after creation: 10 for 10, 15 for 15, etc...
Let us begin...
posted by Jimmy Swill @ 9:44 AM
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